Brad:
Without any qualms, I am proud to say that Eden Jersak is among the wisest pastors I've ever observed or followed, primarily because of her stubborn insistence on moving forward only according to what she sees and hears the Father doing as she attends to God's voice in the context of a trustworthy and prayerful leadership team.
Further, I have come into a teacher's dream job at Westminster Theological Centre (UK) where I serve under the direction of the Dean, Dr. Lucy Peppiatt, who is profoundly gifted as a theologian, teacher and leader who knows how to both bring and stir vision in her staff and faculty.
In other words, I'm enjoying the good fruit of some exceptional 'women in ministry.' And I like to say so. And when I say so publicly as an itinerant minister, invariably someone — usually a young person, usually but not always a male — will approach me after a seminar and say something like,
I really enjoyed your teaching today … but … you mentioned women in ministry. What do you do with the passage where Paul says 'I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man'?
Consider the context: I'm at the front of a church at the end of a talk, surrounded by a small crowd that wants to get in a parting question. The church (often led by dear friends) has been kind enough to invite me, even though many have a policy and practice of leading with all-male pastors and/or all-male eldership. Everyone is listening and I have at most two minutes to answer. Others are overhearing what is typically an unsatisfactory answer. Whatever I say will be seen as divisive or liberal or sloppy. But admittedly, I have pushed that button. I couldn't help it. To me, ecclesial sexism is a justice issue, a moral absurdity, and a sin against the Gospel.
So I needed help. I went to Dr. Peppiatt with my dilemma and asked her to coach me through a brief but decisive answer. What follows is the answer she provided. I have memorized it, internalized it and will begin to employ it. I found it so weighty that I felt the urge to offer it to readers for further thought and use.
Lucy:
Listen. I want you to listen to me very carefully because this is
very important.
We come from an evangelical tradition that believes that Paul,
along with Jesus, taught and demonstrated that women should serve alongside men
in absolutely every area of church life and ministry … which includes teaching, preaching, leading, all the gifts of the Spirit, serving the poor and absolutely anything
else that you can think of.
We don't believe that a woman has to have any
authority over her apart from Jesus Christ.
One of our controlling texts is
Gal. 3:28, which affirms total equality of men and women as central to the Gospel.
That means that when we come to passages in Scripture that appear to contradict
that, they need to be read differently.
Here's my card. If you want to contact
me to talk about how we read those Scriptures, I would be more than happy to
talk to you. If you want to argue with me, I won't have those arguments. I've
read them all and I've heard them all and I don't find them convincing.
I take
this issue with the utmost of seriousness. I believe that other traditions
that have subjected women to men have caused untold damage to men, to women, to
the church and to the church's witness in the world.
That's all I have to say about that for now.
Brad:
I would ask dear friends from patriarchal faith traditions to show the same mercy and restraint which I have shown over this issue when co-labouring with you.
And for those wanting to relook at some of the difficult texts, I recommend Gordon Fee's Gospel and Spirit as a primer.
Hi just wondering if you had the time to review my previous post, I still don’t see it here. Where I posted regarding ‘believing’ Women teaching ‘believing’ men and exercising authority over them? I posted the following video.
Women Bishops – Are there gender-roles in the Church?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0d2uKJSpJM0
I live near Ashill and may be there on the 22nd of February, but suffering with M.E. [Not M.S.] can not be sure, Stephan knows me well and of the video.
It would be good to hear your opinion, as of yet nobody has been able to scripturally oppose my argument in the video, not that I am anything [honestly].. of that I need no convincing… but the scriptures are and if I have understood them correctly, should be adhered to least the Church falls because of the same error of Eve.
All people quote is Galatians 3:28 which clearly states that we are all SAVED the same way [Jew, man. women, greek…], and has nothing to do with our gender roles but everything to do with our salvation. And ignoring whole blocks of text prefer to point out a few obscure events in scripture, this to trash Paul clear commands.
i am obviously not going to argue with you as that is not allowed!
Sadly it is often the passivity of men that has led To this current uprising by women in the church – problem is what other scriptural issues will now manifest because ‘good men did nothing’ and women were busy fighting for their rights that they overlooked praying for boys/men to come into the authority that God has ordained for them.
Abuse inThe church comes from women and men – make no mistake about that- that won’t change however much authority women acquire.
Women will abuse women, women will abuse men, men will abuse women, men will abuse men – the church has to find out why this is happening.
On my WTC Kingdom theology course, Bob Ekblad asked us what we could do to overcome the inherent misogyny in the church – he said it’s just a fact-part of the Fall. Afterwards I thought two things that would help……
View everywoman as if she is pregnant with Jesus Christ- as Mary was- and as Christian women, filled with The Holy Spirit, we actually are in this holy state.
Don’t watch pornography.
Whilst I was on this course – I overheard one of the male students comment to another, as keys/car keys were placed in a bowl(can’t exactlyremember why), that he’d always wanted to go to one of ‘those parties’-we’ve got a long way to go….
Young men/men have been failing in many areas of life at the same time women are soaring – I do not think this is the way God would have ordained things – something is wrong and simply equalising men and women won’t solve it , though you might be able to implement our law to punish offenders- changing minds is a different matter.
Women have taught men as long as we’ve been mothers,sisters, grandmothers,aunties and wives.
Might be good to try to discuss what men have taught women,wives, mothers ,sisters?
Something is wrong and it’s not fixed by ordaining women or even making them bishops.
See “I suffer not the woman” by Kroeger and Kroeger, a book which investigates the background at Ephesus and provides a more reasonable translation of the key text. This runs basically like this – “I don’t allow the women to usurp authority by teaching that women were created first and therefore should have primacy…” it is this that appears to have been being taught at Ephesus.